Jesus Christ's Sacrificial Death

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19 nov. 2008, 3h44m

Not only did I recently hear Spong speak (and he utterly denies Jesus' bodily resurrection, Jesus' death being substitionary atonement, the virgin birth, Jesus ascension after the resurreciton, the Trinity, etc.) last week, but today in the theology class that I'm taking almost the whole class just stated that they did not believe that Jesus' death was sacrificial.



And my theology professor was in full agreement!!

How can anyone who claims to be Christian deny the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ?

How can a person who claims to be Christian deny the substitionary atonement?

Recently I read that 51% of United Methodist pastors denied Jesus' bodily resurrection, and this is from a survey that is ten years old.

What is becoming of the church?

People are not enduring sound doctrine anymore...they cannot stand sound doctrine. This saddens me, and yet it shows the signs of the times.

Spong and others have completely made up their own theology.

2 Timothy 4:1-5
1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Commentaires

  • Fallingup1986

    If Jesus didn't rise from the dead in bodily form then there is no point of being a christian. So yeah I don't know, it's just wierd to have such a messed up christological view as to say the death was not sacrificial and the ressurection wasn't bodily.

    21 nov. 2008, 1h25m
  • Arwen4CJ

    I agree.....without Jesus' bodily resurrection, there is no point to being Christian.

    21 nov. 2008, 3h00m
  • Fallingup1986

    It's funny how you mentioned the methodists since it is surprisingly the mainline denominations who were usually associated with holding to orthodoxy and being conservative, even to the point of not accepting the gifts of the holy spirit, and yet now they are the ones who are embracing ideas contrary to scripture and more rooted in new age stuff.

    21 nov. 2008, 19h26m
  • Arwen4CJ

    churches everywhere are embracing New Age stuff Also....there are different kinds of United Methodist churches. The churches that are holding to the confessing movement are definitely holding to orthodoxy. (The confessing movement is a group of churches who want to go back to the roots of John Wesley and his teachings). The rest of the denomination is becoming increasingly liberal. As one of my other friends has said, "The UMC is ultra-liberal and has been for a long time." I talked to my parents, and they both grew up in the UMC, and this social gospel stuff has been pushed since they were growing up in the church.

    21 nov. 2008, 21h46m
  • Fallingup1986

    Well I've only even gone to churches that were orthodox in terms of theology, been to an ultra legalistic church but not a liberal one.

    22 nov. 2008, 2h41m
  • RecurringDreams

    Why are you even bothered by it? I mean it's an old story about some people on acid. A bunch of lies fed to those who can't live with the fact, that mankind is born to die without knowing what the fuck is going on in the universe. I'm sorry if this offends you, but religion is a lie, in my eyes.

    25 déc. 2008, 4h40m
  • the_gray_fox

    Lol, ignorance.

    14 mars 2009, 15h52m
  • Arwen4CJ

    RecurringDreams, Why am I bothered by it? Because I believe that there are certain essentials to the Christian faith, and I see many of these scholars denying the essentials. It is true that is an old story, and it is one that will never die, and it will never be forgotten. It is THE pivotal point in history. These are not lies. If they were lies, then why would people be willing to die for faith in Christ? You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I am also entitled to mine.

    30 mars 2009, 23h53m
  • Arwen4CJ

    Yes, Christianity hangs on whether or not Jesus rose bodily from the dead. If He did, then that is of great significance. If He didn't, then all of us Christians are wasting our time. Here is what Paul had to say about it: 1CO 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 1CO 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. 1CO 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. 1CO 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

    18 nov. 2009, 14h21m
  • ISoS

    Here's where I agree. The bodily resurrection is an essential tenet of Christian Doctrine. To say otherwise, to me, is to go contrary to Biblical teaching. So for these theologians to proclaim "we are Christian" and say that didn't happen is false. They can't actually be Christian because it's an essential tenet of the faith. The thing is I think the entire religion was made up anyway, so making up their own theology isn't anything new to me. However, I would prefer to just fight ONE Christianity rather than all these other random ones that make even less sense than the illogical one that already exists. Making more illogical claims and theological drivel isn't helping anyone any better than the previous religion, so I have no idea what people want out of religion haha.

    8 déc. 2009, 20h23m
  • Arwen4CJ

    ISoS Thank you for your continued comments on my journal. Yes, that is exactly my point. Jesus' bodily resurrection IS an essential tenant to the Christian faith. To deny it is to be outside the realm of Christian belief, and therefore is heretical. They are making up their own religion. I think that they should just not claim to be Christian -- just come up with a new name. I also agree that it doesn't do anyone any good to invent more theology and then call it Christian --- it makes it harder for us who still do believe in what the creeds affirm. It's almost to the point now where people can make up anything, and they still claim that it is Christian. I can see how it would also be frustrating for people outside of the Christian faith too....because you have more that you have to contend with. Now, I do believe that the Christian faith is based in reality -- that what it says about Jesus is true. I don't know what people are getting out of all of this new theology either. It seems like a complete waste of time to me....sigh.....

    8 déc. 2009, 20h42m
  • roots-roy

    isn't The RELATIONship with Trinity-God more relevant than certain religious doctrines ???

    1 juin 2010, 18h59m
  • Arwen4CJ

    roots-roy, Without sound theology, we open ourselves up to every kind of false teaching out there. Of course relationship with God is important, but this is only relevant if your relationship is with the true God. I think the biggest problem that exists in certain Christian circles is that very idea that relationship and feelings and emotions are more important than doctrine. If we base our entire faith upon these things, we are setting ourselves up for deception. Even in paganism, feelings, emotions, relationship with the divine, etc. is important. In fact these people would claim the exact same things that Christians do about their relationship with God. It brings me to tears to see what has become of many Christians in the church today.

    30 jui. 2012, 15h34m
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