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Woerterbuch
"'Boohoo, stop listening to the industrial bands I don't like!' " Stop tagging aggrotech / neue deutsche härte / future pop / techno / etc as "Industrial". [2]
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Zamari
Emilie Autumn is tagged as Industrial. We need an intervention in the form of this tag. Just because you look like a goth doesn't automatically qualify your music as Industrial. Half the shit on my charts is tagged as Industrial despite the fact that much of it sounds like some sort of M83 B-side.
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silverlage
Hey, I wouldn't go so far as to say 'Johann Sebastian Bach' is not industrial 8=]
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onecrazylemming
This is "not" a tag. It's just an excise for elitist fucks to practice their perfect masturbation fantasies. Seriously, fuck of..
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nezumi-szczur
Stupid ellitist tag for asshats. Seriously, who cares if something is 'tr00 induztrielz', 'tr00 gothik', 'tr00 methvlz' whatever. It's retarded.
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KharBevNor
I'm gonna make an album based on drones and samples of me beating metal plates with lengths of rope.
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SNH_SNH_SNH
Not Industrial Music ((note the capitalization)) is their chief export, don't cha know?
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DrCaligari
damn. i feel a tremendous need do continue this discussion, yet at the same time i know that it would completely destroy my i-don't-give-a-fuck-about-anything reputation and through this make a fatal blow to my internet persona. damn that serious buisness cat :[
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SNH_SNH_SNH
Another thought, would better use of the Classic Industrial tag help solve this problem? It seems that many of the complaints stem from the shift in the use of the word industrial. Since the general populous is never going to revert back to the old usage, would it not be easier to follow Rock's lead (i.e. Classic Rock and Rock)?
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SNH_SNH_SNH
This tags very existence amuses me. If nothing else, it's useful to see where people who care enough about the industrial tag to use this one think the boarders are.
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DrCaligari
as to the concept of the "not-industrial" music - putting aside fact that most of the bands we are talking about (i.e. EBM and industrial rock, mostly) don't have anything to do with tactics I pointed out earlier, the main point is that THE FUNCTION is different. "old school" industrial was not about dancing or teenage/personal angst (in ICH Gen makes speciffic destinction between things that they were doing and rock bands). it had more to do with various functions of modern art. the problem is that "not-industrial" bands have taken accidental, exterior, elements from the "old school" (as the atmosphere, image, or "factory-like" sound) and their fans mistaken them for the core of the phenomen.
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DrCaligari
it should be noted that I'm using expression "PERFORMANCE ART IN THE MATTER OF SOUND", not "music", and "AVANT-GARDE TACTICS", not, for example, "avant-garde techniques", or "avant-garde influences".
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DrCaligari
still, I find wider definition more useful. IMHO word industrial should be used to denote: PERFORMANCE ART IN THE MATTER OF SOUND, EXECUTED THROUGH THE USE OF AVANT-GARDE (specifically - musique concrete, free improvisation, noise, LaMonte Young's minimalism, tribal drumming, tape music, cut-up technique etc.) TACTICS IN THE POP MUSIC CONTEXT AND OPERATING IN CERTAIN, COUNTER CULTURAL, AESTHETICS.
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DrCaligari
well, that depends. there are various ways of using the word "genre". if you use it to describe a "scene" (group of artists in specific time and/or place, connected personally and through the similar interests, inspiring one another etc. ) than yes, industrial ended with Industrial Records or even earlier. in "Industrial Culture Handbook" everyone speaks about it in the past tense. Monte Cazazza even uses expression "flogging the dead horse". and this was before 1983
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imaginarypetbat
Technically "industrial" went out with "Industrial Records" in the 80's. (Gristle, Cazazza) Everything else is "post-industrial"... well, not everything :D
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DrCaligari
also [1] I find word "rivethead" offensive, [2] yes, this tag is a joke, still I find discussion pretty entertaining
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DrCaligari
and what open-mindness got to do with this? for me personally, genres are useful tools for navigation through the musical world, not for self-determination. so I find word "industrial" as it is used today, useless. cause when I'm looking for industrial music I'm looking for specific kind of MUSIC. and nowadays this word means - "band who uses make-up, electronics and dresses black". and that's not only too wide definition, but it's also not really interesting.
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vx_GASMAN
It'll never happen, bro. You'll never stop people from tagging Marilyn Manson as "gothic rock", no matter how many Sisters, Sex Fiends and Skeletals you throw at 'em. The fact that there doesn't appear to be a "not gothic" tag (I could be wrong, but I've not seen one) may indicate that -the horror- goths are more open minded than rivetheads after all.
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fisk0
Well, I don't take the "not industrial" tag too seriously. Just thought it could be fun to counter the people tagging everything from rammstein to 50 cent industrial, and I have some naive hope that maybe, someone, somewhere will look at the tag list for a band they like and see not industrial, wonder why that is and look up what industrial actually is on wikipedia or something.
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vx_GASMAN
No, I understand your analogy, makes sense. But I think the connection between industrial and EBM (as with the connection between noise and industrial) is too strong to be ignored. And of course we're overlooking the "electro-industrial" genre, describing bands such as Skinny Puppy, Clock DVA or yelworC who are neither straight-up industrial or straight-up EBM, but contain strains of both. Also I don't think having a seperate tag for things that are incorrectly tagged industrial is that productive (even if I am confused and enraged at MSI being tagged as industrial). Fans of other genres don't care, why should we?
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fisk0
I think something I said could be interpreted as that, which I apologize for. There is a connection, but many people seem to think they are the same genre. The problem comes when people argue that because something is linked to the industrial genre through several lines of "inspired by ..." the end product has to be industrial too. Just because a lot of progressive rock bands were inspired by classical music and classical composition, and that post-rock and progressive metal bands were inspired by the prog. rock bands, does not mean that they play classical music. A bad analogy, I know, but in some instances that seem to be the way some people think.
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