Fronted by Darren White, ex-vocalist with Liverpool doom metal pioneers
Anathema,
Serotonal are one of the few bands playing heavy music on Merseyside. I spoke to four of them on the eve of the release of their debut full-length album,
'Monumental: Songs Of Misery And Hope'. First off, I asked them to introduce themselves...
Matt: OK, we're on.
Andy Heath: Andy Heath, bass.
Darren White: I'm Darren White, vocals.
Jon Francis-White: I'm Jon Francis-White, guitars.
Gary Hill: Gary Hill, guitars.
Matt: OK, thanks for that guys...
Darren: (faux Yorkshire accent) And Wayne in't 'ere. Wayne plays drums, an' he's int Yorkshire.
Matt: Oh, Wayne? Oh right...he's from Yorkshire, is he?
Darren: Yeah.
Andy: Mmm.
Matt: OK...well, in a way it's kind of a good thing that he's not here...no disrespect to him of course, but, well...there's questions concerning Liverpool coming up, in particular, so... Anyway, first of all I'd better just ask about the new album. It's your first proper full-length album...you've had demos and EPs out and that before, but this is the first full-length thing you've done. So can any of you go into any kind of detail about what you reckon about the album, how it sounds, how it kinda sums up where you are musically. Any comments on that?
Darren: Yeah, I mean I could sort of say about the lyrics anyway, or what the overall sort of feel of the title and things like that and where it's all linked in. It's called 'Monumental: Songs Of Misery And Hope'...it's like a double title because 'Monumental' on its own maybe was sort of just too simplistic, and 'Songs Of Misery And Hope' just kind of explains it really, y'know, to people, just makes it more to the point that it is songs of misery and hope really throughout the album...there's dark sounding things, there's really seriously sort of disturbing parts to what's it's about, yet there's always an element of hope throughout, and that's always been the case with what I've written anyway, so it's just a continuation for me. Musically, it's...
Jon: Dynamic...
Darren: Heaviness...
Jon: ...dynamic soundscape of power and grace.
(laughter)
Matt: Mmm. So you got like a range of emotions and sounds going on, it sounds like...
Darren: Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
Darren: Yeah.
Matt: Is that like a reflection of your personalities, d'you reckon, or your lives?
Jon: Potentially, yeah.
Darren: Yeah...
Jon:...I'd say...
Darren: ...yeah. I mean, I've always felt comfortable playing more melancholic music, you know, or, sort of sides of what's going on inside me head and that you know, or soul or whatever you know, to try and get those negative energies out...the best way is to do it through music I think, rather than going out on the streets and having a fight with someone. Get all your negative energies out like that, you know?
Jon: Do you think the way we like to...you know, I suppose like, you know, looking from the outside type of thing, it's like the music, it moves, and so, the point is like, you know, it doesn't matter how slow or melancholic a melody can be, if it's got, like a pulse in it, you know, I suppose it, you know, if it keeps on moving, you can kind of like, you know, travel with the music a little bit more as well, so...I suppose in terms of atmosphere, it's just, it's always moving. That's the way I see the songs, you know, they breathe, type of thing.
Matt: Yeah...is that something you work hard on when you're working on the songs, to kinda reflect the lyrics in the music, or does it just come more naturally and you just throw it all together and it ends up sounding good, or what?
Jon: I think the lyrics come last, and Daz is probably best explaining that, but my interpretation of the reason why the lyrics come last is like Daz has like, you know, a constructive involvement in, I suppose, like, you know, orchestrating the songs - well, the riffs, ideas, or whatnot - into actual songs. So, I think it works to his advantage when he's writing lyrics, because he's been involved in the movement of the music, and then he can kinda stand and look at it from an objective point of view, with a clearer mind to writing his lyrics. I don't know...would that be an accurate description?
Darren: Yeah, I mean I'll try and write some stuff while we're writing the riffs, or jamming on the riffs, I'll try and sort of, like, get a feel for how I might want to sing on a part but, I feel better once the song is done, and I think it's like, good enough, if you like, y'know, it has to be really right and good, and I have to try and get it as well, y'know. Sometimes with a song, I'll get it immediately. Other times it'll take a while until I get it, and once I'm in it, and I get the vibe of the music, then I can write the lyrics that will try and sort of suit the atmosphere of the song, suit every little different part of the song, and I'm very analytical when it comes to doing that. Even when we recorded it, as Gaz will, no doubt sort of back up, because when we recorded the vocals, the most of them were recorded not in the studio that we'd done the album in but in my 'Rooms Of Doom', (laughter)...which is - as I said before to you - those rooms at the top of me house unrenovated which are away from the street enough because they're high up, but they're totally unrenovated and miserable, so they're the Rooms Of Doom, but we set up a little sort of recording studio in there and Gary done all the recording, and as I say, as Gaz will back up, the amount of times that I'll say "I'll just do another one of them" (laughter)...and it's like time's getting on you know, and like Gaz's got a little bit of a drive to get back home and that like, and I (laughs)...you know...but we got there in the end, you know...we worked really, really hard on doing that.
Jon: I think to say that you've got an analytic ear is an understatement, to be honest... (laughs)
Darren: It's a good thing to have, you know...
Jon: Yeah, yeah, quality control...
Darren: If you're gonna put art out into the public domain, it has to be worthy, you know.
Matt: Yeah...well you take it pretty seriously then.
Darren: Definitely, yeah, yeah...really, I'd feel really disappointed if I put something out, and I felt that there might be a possibility that some people'd say "Oh, you know, he's past it now, you know" (laughter)..."what he done before was great but like look at how sad he is" or "look what he's doing now", you know, that would be the nightmare that people would wonder that, you know. It's one thing if they think it's different than what I've done before and they think, OK, that's a different thing, but if it's just simply not as good as what I've done before then I'd feel really...that I'd failed. Well I wanna obviously improve meself, so everything that we write...I might be a bit over-critical to these guys, because there may be more, sort of, just feeling the happiness of sort of writing and getting something out and then there's me sorta saying, "Oh yeah, but you know..." trying to sort of tighten every little screw and maybe sometimes it's not necessary, you know...
Jon: Putting the breaks on...(laughter)...yeah. It's worth it in the end though...
Darren: But we get there in the end, you know.
Matt: Yeah, sure...so, would you guys say you're perfectionists, or not?
Jon: Yeah. I'd say very fussy, and...yeah. Very fussy.
Matt: And is that a good thing?
Jon: Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Andy: Yeah, definitely. Frustrating at times, but...
Jon: But it ensures quality control, doesn't it? I mean, as Daz says, elaborating on what he said there, throwing material out just for the sake of it is...it kinda defeats the object of it in the first place if you know what I mean. And I think that's one of the fundamental elements about Serotonal, really, the fact that, you know, we don't have a format and stick to it, do you know what I mean? It's like we all appreciate different genres of music, but, you know, we all agree on one thing, we love heavy music, so there's different elements...sometimes melodic elements, y'know, sometimes really, like, up to date kind of like, y'know, heavy riffs there and it's...as I say a dynamic blend of different elements coming together to form one sound, which I, personally, from someone who's fussy when it comes to listening to music, personally, I find that interesting, the fact that like, you know, we're honest with every song, if you know what I mean. We're not scared of trying something new, we'll just do...as long as it does the song justice, we wouldn't step too far off the rails, we'll keep it within the reason, but, we don't mind like, you know, straying off now and then.
Matt: Yeah, fair enough. OK, I should ask a question that I would ask any band really. It's a bit of a boring question, but it's kind of essential. How would you actually categorise yourselves, musically?
Jon: That's a hard one...
Darren: Really heavy...a really heavy rock band! (laughter)
Matt: Heavy rock?
Darren: Yeah.
Jon: It's hard to say like, you know, when people say to me, like, you know "Just tell us what type of stuff yous do". The only way I can kinda describe it - and it's not even accurate - it's like, you know if you listen to stuff like
Massive Attack or whatever, it's got that melancholic pulse, if you like. I'd like to think that some of our more moody stuff has that kind of element. You know, obviously the fuzzy, heavy guitars...y'know,
Black Sabbath, I suppose, and, y'know, I suppose the...I dunno, it's hard to explain, but it's like...it's weird, isn't it? How would you categorise our music?
Gary: People categorise it as doom...
Jon: But it's not...
Gary: ...just 'cause Darren was in, you know, doom bands and...but it's...that's just the easiest thing to put it into, but it's not...I wouldn't say it was metal in its...
Jon: Yeah, absolutely...
Gary: ...in a pure form of, like 'balls to the wall' type shit...
Darren: It's got a spirit of all of that, hasn't it? There's a spirit that runs through it that, it's like that...
Gary: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just rock. Heavy rock.
Jon: Yeah, there's something in it for everyone, you know what I mean? That's the way, if you look at the songs across the board, like you know, there's...I feel we've got a way with doing a...you know, a perfect pop song, like '
Wasteland' for example. You know, we've got a way...we've pulled that off like, you know, it wasn't intentional, it wasn't deliberate. There's different elements all the way through it like, and, from like, really gut-wrenching doom outbreaks, to really catchy 4/4 pop numbers...there's everything there like, you know. It's full colour.
Darren: As long as it's got melody...
Jon: Feel.
Darren: ...and feel and emotion, and then, when it's heavy, it's really heavy...but running through it also is...in my head, in my goal for us is that, like, there's a spirit of sort of...trueness...
Jon: Yeah, honesty...yeah.
Darren: ...which is how...I don't know how you can define trueness, but it's like, trying to use valve amps and get an organic sound, trying to sort of like go with the natural sounds, and recording live, if we can, and when we can, and, you know...
Gary: Having a wide boundary and that like...
Darren: Yeah, it's like, without categorising ourselves, but like, at the end of the day, we like to be very heavy, you know, I mean Gary's using...well, they're both using Gibson guitars, and a range of Gibson guitars which are...obviously to people who know, they're gonna make heavy sounds. You know, we're always looking at valve amps, they're always getting obsessed with valve amps and getting louder and heavier. Wayne...we're made up with Wayne's drumkit because his bass drum is massive...(laughter)...and has a real...(imitates heavy bass drum sound)...boom to it, so in rehearsal it just sounds really nice...
Jon: You can feel the air coming out of his bass drum, can't you? When you're standing there...
Darren: Yeah...
Jon: It's great!
Darren: So there's just, like, that sort of pulse running through things and that, you know. I mean I always sort of say, you know,
Celtic Frost are a big inspiration for me, and
Kyuss, and I can't really think of any others that sort of like, you know, 'cause there's just so much other stuff that I like as well that come into what we do.
Jon: That is the thing isn't it like, you know? I mean we all have our different kinds of music that we like to listen to in personal time and that, but as I say like, we all come from like a predominant, heavy background, so I mean everything we've experienced since like, being nineteen or whatever up until now, I think all them elements, all that learning if you like, comes through in the music that we do. I hope.
Darren: One of the reasons why it's been so easy for us as well, it's like, I'm the oldest in the band, and then you've got Andy who's the youngest, and in between you've got the other guys., and so all the way through, you've got different sort of...different evolution with us as people, and a different, sort of...even though we all like heavy music and we do like metal as well as all the other forms of music we like, there's still those eras that are different, you know like, my era is different to Andy's and that you know and I want him to like some of the stuff that I like and I want him to sort of go "Listen to your heritage" and that you know? (laughter) And at the same time he says to me...
Jon: Get back to the classroom...
Darren: ...you know, "Listen to what's up to date" and that, you know? But then...so he's finding out recently some of the up to date bands he likes, they're now defunct, and there's a new wave coming on through...
Andy: Yeah.
Darren: ...so you know, the younger kids out there...
Jon: See, the funny thing is that there's a lot of contradiction going on, if you like, because a lot of, like, new music if you like, a lot of it does end up sounding like, y'know, you can pigeonhole it, you know what I mean? You can totally pigeonhole a lot of like generic kind of metal bands, if you like, and, I think like, fortunately for us, I believe, because we're not kind of basing our writing material or ideas on new bands, new music or whatever, I think that kind of helps us generate original material...hopefully! (laughs)
Darren: Well there are some new, good new bands out at the moment that I'm discovering...you probably know
Pelican?
Matt: Pelican, yeah.
Jon: Don't be plugging other bands Daz!
(laughter)
Darren: Nah, it's alright! Pelican, do you know them?
Matt: Yeah, I know Pelican, yeah.
Darren: Yeah, yeah, been getting into them lately...
Jon: Apparently I need to listen to them.
Matt: You do!
Darren: ...Gaz has got onto
Baroness recently, haven't you Gaz?
Gaz: Yeah, yeah...
Darren: And Gaz has always liked
Mastodon and that and he's kinda like, turned me onto them a little bit. So you know, we're all learning about, like, new stuff as well from each other as well.
Gaz: Yeah.
Matt: Mmm. So, I mean do you...when you're writing new songs, do you kind of have any pre-determined idea about how you want it to sound, or is it just like...
Jon: Always.
Matt: Always.
Jon: Always, yeah, I mean...it's like, same with Gaz, I mean the type of backgrounds me and Gaz come from, I mean I've been working with Gaz since...God, how old were we when we started writing together? Sixteen, seventeen, something like that...
Gary: Yeah, you were about seventeen, I was eighteen...
Jon: Eighteen, yeah...
Gary: ...nineteen...
Jon: But the way we...I mean at the time we were both in a black metal band together and stuff, and he retired from that black metal band and became the band's sound guy like, didn't ya?
Gary: Retired!
(laughter)
Jon: But ever since then, me and Gaz kinda like started our relationship around about then, and like we had little side projects, little death metal experiments, you know and the way he'd work would be similar to me. He'd go home with his drum machine and record the bass himself, record the drums himself, get the guitars on there, and I'd do the same so we...from me and Gaz's point of view, coming up with the riffs or whatever, we always have an idea of what the drums should be doing, we always have an idea of what the bass should be doing, but I will put my hand on the table and admit, I cannot write a song for toffee. I can write music, but I can't write songs, like, you know and I think that's...you know, it's kind of like a self-helping band like, you know, me and Gaz'll come up with some ideas, we'll play them to each other, you know, we'll see each other's riffs, adapt on each other's riffs, play it 'til we're comfortable, then the drums and bass'll then come in, glue all the bits together and then, you know, Daz'll put his vocals on top after it's been orchestrated, and then, at the end of that process we've got a song, so that's kind of how the writing process works. But yeah, the answer to the question is I always have a pre-determined idea of what the drums and bass should be doing, prior to actually putting the riff out there.
Matt: OK. Well I wanna talk about...Liverpool, I guess...and...
Jon: (laughs) Miserypool!
Matt: Miserypool...
(laughter)
Nice, nice...so am I right in thinking you all grew up in Anfield, or somewhere near?
Jon: Anfield.
Gary: Yeah...
Andy: Kirkdale.
Gary: And Walton.
Darren: And I'm Anfield, yeah.
Jon: Orrell Park, tell the truth!
(laughter)
Matt: OK, so you know...not exactly paradise...
Jon: No.
Gary: No.
Matt: ...if I'm being honest...
Gary: No.
Matt: I mean how d'ya think your upbringing, and where you've been living all your lives, how d'ya think that's actually influenced your music and what you do?
Jon: Well I come from a very scally family like, you know what I mean? Me mum's side of the family are from Kirkby, and me dad's side of the family are from Scotland Road, and, I don't know how, I think Daniel Osbourne in second year seniors changed everything for me by introducing me to
Iron Maiden. If it hadn't've been for him I'd probably still be playing footie outside the laundrette...
(laughter)
...so I consider meself to be very fortunate and lucky that I was introduced to music at an early stage.
Darren: I came to Liverpool when I was maybe five or something like that, me family moved to Liverpool, 'cause me dad was originally from Liverpool and he kinda moved back when he left the Air Force, and so up until that point I'd, like, lived in different places, when me dad was in the Air Force, so as a kid I was moving about, and living in different places until coming to Liverpool, and so, even though I feel, like, a bond to Liverpool in that sense 'cause then I was there from that age 'til I was about twenty two, something like that when I left, I do feel that bond with Liverpool, but I always felt like I was not...because I wasn't born in Liverpool, I wasn't a Scouser, and so I always felt, kinda like, that unattached feeling and that, you know? And then I've lived for a few years in Colchester and then I went travelling and I've come back to Liverpool, because of some nostalgic feeling that I had when I came back, and then I...because I wanted to obviously concentrate on doing Serotonal, I had to sorta stay in Liverpool, and...but I still do feel that sort of...
Gary: Can't help it...
Darren: ...one foot is in Liverpool, and appreciates it, but because I've been different places I know that Liverpool has got its like, really annoying bad sides, but I've decided to move back to it, you know, and decided to move back to North Liverpool of all places, to Anfield because, within it, I can see that there's a character and there's a...y'know, I love old houses and there's a...they're all Victorian houses, back to back terraces everywhere, and I see the beauty in all of them through all the litter, the dogshit and the...
Jon: Glass...
Darren: ...and the glass...
(laughter)
...and, you know, some of the boarded up houses, which are beautiful houses...I can see that beauty amidst all the decay, and that was my big influence growing up and that, and while I was growing up seeing the area around me declining and going into decay year on year, you know. When I was a kid, all the shops were open. By the time I left Liverpool, they were all boarded up, windows smashed, if they were still there, you know. Businesses closed down...
Gary: The system had collapsed...
Darren: ...that was what was going on around me as I grew up, and so, you know, that must've had an influence...
Jon: I mean we live, I suppose...it's like the secrets behind Liverpool because Liverpool, when it gets media attention if you like, it's, you know, it gets a lot of positive media attention and it does deserve it because the centre of, the Liverpool city centre...
Darren: I'd say most of the media attention on Liverpool was negative...
Jon: Well no, what I mean is, you know, they have like whole...
Darren: There's a lot of hype that comes from...
Jon: Yeah, there's a lot of hype, but there's also...I mean, I suppose we live in the shadows of that thing if you know what I mean...but having said that, you know I have witnessed a change in Anfield, like Anfield has kind of, like, you can tell it's invested in, but people's minds haven't been changed yet...
Darren: Yeah...
Jon: ...the bad habits still exist like, unfortunately...
Darren: There are people trying to make a change and that...for the better. We'll see...
Gary: Thing is like, the 1% ruins it for everyone else, d'ya know what I mean? It's...
Darren: Yeah...it's always like that...
Gary: ...could be like fifty people and if one person's a bad egg then it just ruins it.
Jon: Yeah, that's it...
Darren: Like if you go to a nightclub, and everyone's in a jovial mood and you've had a good night...
Gary: ...it just takes one knobhead...
Darren: ...but then there's a big scrap...
Gary: Yeah, yeah...
Darren: ...a big fight breaks out...you then think...
Gary: The whole night's ruined, yeah.
Darren: ...What a moody night that was, you know?
Gary: I think that's the same everywhere though, in England...
Darren: Yeah, that is...
Jon: But to be honest with you, like if you look at 'Songs Of Misery And Hope', just to kinda point out what you were on about in terms of the meaning behind the songs...
Darren: It fits in, doesn't it? It sits in.
Jon: ...it's the same with Liverpool...it fits the same. It's like we cling onto the idea of a better way, you know what I mean, even though that means us being scarred by the things that we don't particularly agree with, in society, like...so that's 'Songs Of Misery And Hope' again isn't it like, you know?
Darren: Mmm...but when I come to the city centre in Liverpool, y'know, I love it, I like the...
Jon: Vibrance.
Darren: ...the vibrance of it, yeah, the different sort of interesting sort of shops and different people and that, you know, you get like...you know, not everyone looks the same and that you know, and it's a change from being round Anfield and that, where you get a lot of the scallies and that, you know?
Jon: Funnily enough, there's a saying...not like an established saying but, in Anfield you don't really see students, and we're now starting to see a couple of little students here and there which indicates that potentially, the area's gonna improve! (laughs)...So it's like that kinda, you know, I mean we can't complain, I mean...
Gary: John Moore's gets hold of it and that... (laughs)
Jon: That's it like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean we can't complain, it's like you know, it's, I mean, again, as with Daz, like I grew up in Anfield like, you know, I've got so many memories of being a boy in Anfield, and Stanley Park was my paradise groing up, and I live right by it. So our little area where we live in Anfield, it's...you can't help but feel attached to it, like you know...it's a lovely, atmospheric area, you know...
Darren: The cemetry...
Jon: Yeah!
Darren: ...we always used to go to the cemetry. I used to go to it meself years ago when I was writing lyrics with Anathema and that, and we'd go over there and do band photoshoots...
(laughter)
Darren: ...and then...
Jon: The usual setup...
Gary: Pull faces... (laughs)
Darren: ...and you know, it's true, I literally used to go there, and sit there for a while and that, on me own sometimes. We'd go there together and hang out, and have a few beers and that like, or a smoke and that, but then I'd go there on me own sometimes like, when I was writing lyrics, just to kinda get in the mood and that. And the thing is like, funnily enough, you know, just a handfull of years later, Jon used to walk through there, but with a different vibe in it, you know, he used to have like his...
Jon: (laughs)
Darren: ...long black leather coat and his you know, his black metal music blaring into his headphones...
Jon: Listening to
Nåstrond, yeah, with dead long hair, walking through the cemetry on me own...I wouldn't do that now!
(laughter)
Darren: Same cemetry, but just different music...
Jon: Yeah.
Matt: Oh well...so, has this definitely had a noticeable effect on your music, kinda thing, or...
Andy: Yeah...
Matt: ...would you be able to define that effect, or influence?
Jon: I think as an individual, it's kind of helped shape me into being the individual I am, you know, me morals and beliefs and me attitude in general. I think that has, you know, it has contributed towards that, but not necessarily the effect on the music I wouldn't say...
Darren: Well I would say that the 'misery and hope' aspect and that would be, like we just sorta said before that like there is something in there, you know? That we've lived with misery and hope, and we're writing about misery and hope...
Jon: Well we live with misery and hope every day.
Darren: But we haven't consciously gone out like, it's like 'Oh, let's write a concept album about misery and hope'. That's just the way I exist. It's like that in my head and that kinda thing.
Matt: So that's the way you've always done lyrics then...
Darren: Yeah...more or less, yeah...
Matt: So that whole album title, does that kind of, like, reflect your overall approach to music, so it's just...
Darren: Yeah, yeah...
Matt: ...it's not, I mean, it will effect, it'll reflect your future output as well, like...
Darren: I would think so, I don't know how I can shake it off, you know...it'll be different, 'cause I might maybe right about different things and get inspired by different things for different songs, but ultimately that'll just run through it all like a sort of a continual thing and that with little, sort of, alternate avenues of interest but it'll be that that will be the essential theme running through everything. I can't help it, and...which I think actually is what life is like really, you know? We live our lives like that don't we, you know? Sort of battling in our own minds for happiness, while sometimes struggling with unhappiness...negativity and fear, anxiety and all those things that can bog us down, when, ultimately, at the end of the day, if we try and change our way of thinking, consciously change our way of thinking, and to try and be positive, and try and be open and experience things to the fullest, then good opportunities, I think then actually come to you. So it's like...
Jon: Karma...
Darren: ...it's battling between trying to be positive and then getting battered down by negative things and being able to sorta put yourself in perspective and that...
Matt: Yeah...well it sounds like you've got quite a good approach to your music and your lyrics and it seems to reflect life in general and the struggles that we have to go through...the mental struggles, as much as anything else...
Darren: That's it, yeah. I think, you know, and we all go introspective. All of us have that, you know, even when you see someone who looks...who always appears to be ultra confident, running round, always the life and soul of the party, you know, you don't know what goes on in their heads when they go home at night...
Jon: They're the people who have most problems...
(laughter)
Matt: Yeah, well you have to wonder, don't you?
Jon: Yeah.
Matt: Is it just like a front? Or are they hiding something?
Jon: That's it, yeah.
Darren: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: Well you guys all seem quite down to earth...I mean is that the way you see yourselves, or...?
Darren: Well we try to be anyway.
Andy: Yeah...
Jon: Just normal lads at the end of the day just doing music, you know, that's it.
Darren: Mmm.
Andy: Something we love...
Jon: Yeah...
Darren: Yeah...
Matt: We'll see how long that lasts when this album sells millions of copies!
(laughter)
Darren: If it sells millions of copies, I'll...I'll try and eat that glass.
(laughter)
I'll come back here one day and I'll try and eat that glass...
Gary: I'll hold you to that, Daz, you know!
(laughter)
Darren: If we sell millions...I'll go for it.
Matt: Yeah, oh well...
Darren: I don't reckon I'll be eating that glass, however!
(laughter)
Matt: Well not with that attitude, you won't...
(laughter)
Matt: Yeah...well hopefully you will. I hope it sells millions of copies.
Darren: I'll be just happy to play Roadburn Festival in Holland and that like, with some...
Gary: Yeah...
Darren: ...some fellow decent bands who would know how to use valve amps and that and stuff...
(laughter)
Matt: Oh...OK. Well that's the main criteria, is it?
(laughter)
Darren: That's it, yeah, it is! I can't define it any other way really...though I'm not a guitarist, I do appreciate the sound of a nice valve. Gaz has got a nice one at the moment, haven't ya Gaz? Nice new one...
Gary: Yeah, yeah...
Darren: Caused him trouble at first, but he's...
Gary: Yeah, it's sorted...
Darren: ...sorted that out now...
Matt: Teething problems.
Gary: Yeah, yeah...fuse was blown and shit...
(laughter)
Matt: Well I should ask you about future touring plans, have you got any? Are you gonna be touring this album, or...?
Darren: Well we intend to...we intend to. We just have to sort of try and keep avenues open and see which tours we might get offered, or you know, agencies might come to us and that, like you know. We're sort of sending out little sort of signals at the moment, to sort of say to agents that we're open to going on tours if they wanna sort of put us on, so...a support tour would obviously be helpful, wouldn't it? You know, touring with perhaps a more established band.
Gary: That's more...the most preferable...what we'd like to do...
Jon: Yeah.
Darren: Yeah.
Gary: ...a good tour support with someone...
Darren: I mean, Anathema have already offered to take us out on tour, it's just if our record label can come up with the goods, if you like, you know, and get us to sorta be able to actually make that happen, you know.
Matt: Right...oh so it's all down to them, really?
Darren: Really, when it boils down to it, the offer is there, it's just if we can logistically do it. They've given us the opportunity...
Gary: And we have been told, you know, when we signed, that like, there will be tour supports there, so we just have to wait and see.
Darren: Mmm.
Jon: See, the thing is, with the record company, the record company kinda does things behind an iron curtain if you like, and, you know, at the end of the period, they'll let us know what they've done type of thing, so a lot of the time, you know, even though we know that the label is doing things and that like, we...I mean, the only thing we can do at the moment anyway is just like, you know, we've been writing a lot of new material and obviously the anticipation of getting the album out, so, I think our intentions at the moment is to let the album come out, see what feedback is generated from the album...we've already put a couple of feelers out for agents and things like that, but I think, fundamentally, the most important thing for us to do is just carry on and keep the fire burning by writing. So that's kind of like the unintended plan, so to speak.
Matt: Right. So, I mean do you guys think of yourselves as a live band, or a studio band, or...?
Jon: Live band.
Andy: Definitely a live band.
(laughter)
Jon: Love it...we just need the right gigs really you know and...we've had this converstaion before, I mean we've played gigs in Liverpool, and, sadly the gigs in Liverpool have been like, you know, I suppose the most soul-destroying ones because it seems to be hard to bring people out to Liverpool to come and see your band like, you know. I think there is a big trend in Liverpool at the moment and, you know, I suppose we're outside of that trend, and I suppose a minority in our own city in that respect, but I mean, as a band, I think really we've done our fair share of like, you know, playing to thirty people, type of thing, and it would be nice to move up to that next step and play like bigger festivals, or...but we'll see what opportunities are generated as a result of the album release, and take it from there, type of thing.
Matt: Oh well things should start picking up anyway...
Darren: Yeah...
Matt: ...it seems, from what I've read so far in the media that the album's doing OK...critically anyway...
Jon: Yeah.
Andy: Mmm.
Matt: I dunno...I can't say from being outside the band but, it seems like you're picking up some new fans along the way...I dunno.
Darren: Yeah...
Jon: Hopefully like, yeah, I mean we have noticed a subtle...(laughs)...development of interest in the band, like, but it is subtle, I have to say like, but, I mean, you know, when you're used to, like you know, hardly anyone knowing who you are and stuff, and playing these small little gigs and no one knows who you are, it's nice to, you know, like...it kind of answers a lot of questions when we, like for example in Birmingham, you know, we seem to have gone down well in Birmingham. You know, it was quite full, from what I could see and there were...it seemed to be that there were people there interested in what we were doing anyway before we even played so you know, that's feedback in itself in a roundabout way, isn't it?
Matt: Yeah, definitely. I wanna talk a bit about metal in Liverpool. I guess you... well, it's hard to categorise you, as we've said before, but I guess you kinda come under 'metal'...
Jon: Yeah.
Matt: ...'ish, so what do you guys think about the metal scene, or hard rock scene in Liverpool?
Jon: We haven't really felt one have we?
Darren: No, not really, no!
Jon: I know there's bands out there, I mean we rehearse with a couple of heavier bands and stuff, but I mean, you don't really see heavy bands playing that much in Liverpool, do you?
Darren: I know there are some bands who've played in the Korova and that, like, that you may have seen yourself and that you know?
Jon: They weren't from Liverpool though, were they? One was from America...
Darren: No, there were some Liverpool bands...
Jon: Was there?
Darren: ...and there are Liverpool bands who are sort of...have been playing those kinda gigs and that, you know, and I've sorta checked them out...I really, honestly don't remember the band's names at the moment, but I like their vibe, but just sort of, you know, they're not like what I would really go for or get excited about, so I haven't sorta followed them up and seen them again...
Gary: It's mostly death metal stuff, isn't it? That's about it like...
Darren: Yeah...there was one band - I don't remember their name - that we played with in that gig...we played a gig, like, about a year ago with
Grief and
Trap Them, and they'd sorta travelled over from America but then there was a load of like sorta local bands as well, and
Ramesses played, from the south coast and that, and there was a couple of local bands that I thought...
Gary:
Dragged Into Sunlight?
Darren: ...'Who are they?'...
Gary: ...Was that one of them?
Darren: Was that it, yeah? There was one band, and I was impressed with them because, like, the time between the bass drum and the snare was particularly long...you know?
Jon: (laughs)
Darren: ...and it was like, you know, this is slower than winter, this is bordering on, like,
Sunn O))) speed here, and, y'know, I was impressed with their diligence in being able to sort of, like, resist hitting the snare too early!
(laughter)
...you know, it was like, it was extremely slow, and I had to appreciate it...
Jon: Tantric doom! (laughs)
Darren: Yeah, it's like that in a way, yeah! It's tantric in its essence, that's right.
Jon: Yeah.
Darren: And, you know, so I appreciated them but I don't remember, maybe they were Dragged Into Sunlight, I'm not sure, but none of those bands have really, sort of followed things through if you like, or they've had the same difficulties as ourselves in Liverpool, in which, you know, it's very difficult to sort of get yourself established when you're playing such underground music...
Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Matt: Well I think...certainly extreme metal...obviously there's the mainstream stuff, you know your
Machine Head or whatever, that quite a lot of the kids like these days, but the more extreme, underground stuff isn't very popular round here.
Jon: No.
Matt: Obviously, it's underground, so it's not gonna be that popular anyway, but even considering that, there's just so few people I meet that seem to be into that kinda stuff. I mean why do you think that is...what is it about Liverpool, or Merseyside in particular...?
Darren: I think it's a society thing, to be honest.
Jon: I mean it's quite a 'poser' city though isn't it really, if you think about it, you know? if you look at it, everything's gotta be 'in'. You know what I mean? You see a lot of that, like, you know what I mean? It's like a lot of bands that you see...I haven't really paid that much attention lately so I might be wrong now, me opinion might be out of date, but I mean, you know there's that, like, tight jeans and Winklepickers with, like, Telecasters and Vox amps and that, and, you knowm curly bunheads and stuff, you know, there's a lot of that like and it seems to be...
Darren: I haven't got anything...not that we've got anything against people with Telecasters and...
Jon: No, no, no, not at all, you know...
Darren: ...bunheads, curly bunheads and that...
Jon: ...but I mean it's a trend, it's a trend nonetheless, that's what I'm saying, it's a trend nonetheless...it just so happens that, like, Liverpool is of them cities, you know, a jangly, kind of like, you know, 'beat'...what's the word? You know...'beat...pop' city like, you know what I mean?
Darren: Mmm...
Jon: I don't know whether that's the right terminology to use for that, them types of bands...
Andy: I think it's quite correct...
(laughter)
Darren: But I think that's everywhere...
Jon: It is everywhere...
Darren: ...that's everywhere, you know...it's just...
Jon: ...but Liverpool, predominantly in Liverpool, it's massive in Liverpool, that tight jeans and Winklepicker thing, it is, isn't it? Long trenchcoats and that...
Darren: I don't mind, as long as people go and see live music, I don't really mind what the...
Matt: Yeah that's true, that's true.
Darren: ...what the music is, however, you know, like metal is very underground here and that like...as you said, like, the Machine Head kinda metal is fair enough, you know, you'll have plenty of people will come out the woodwork for that, but, you know, it is fairly underground for a city so large and so appreciative of music...when you get like a fairly decent doom band, you know, just see the turnout being quite low, but that's...ultimately, at the end of the day if you're a band and that, like, then you should just sort of think, alright well the people are gonna come out as long as we play the music well and they enjoy it, that's ultimately all that matters and...
Jon: In comparison...
Darren: ...it's hard to, as a band, to sort of like deal with that, you know...but you just sort of do it and try and stay true to yourselves and hopefully the people then will appreciate that trueness, and then...
Jon: It's a funny thing because our...I suppose our neighbour city, Manchester, if you like...whenever we've played live in Manchester, it's always felt good. You know, it's a...it feels as though people actually come to see ya when you go to Manchester, whereas it's the opposite end of the spectrum here, you know what I mean?
Darren: Mmm.
Matt: So you get a bigger turnout in the audience at Manchester?
Jon: Absolutely...I think so, yeah.
Darren: Mmm...yes.
Jon: There's people there who come to see your band, and they express the fact that they're enjoying your music, which helps a band, you know, that's the element...if you haven't got that, if you've got thirty people in front of you and they're not that bothered, you know, your performance is gonna be limited, to an extent, whereas if you're playing to an audience that are actually there and enjoying it and want more of it, it's gonna encourage the band to, kind of, perform even better. And I think that's the main element, you know, asking the question earlier on, do we...'are we a live band?' We are a live band but, you know, depending on who we're playing to, has an impact and effect on how we are as a live band, you know what I mean?
Matt: Mmm. Er...right...can't really think of anything else to ask...
Jon: (laughs) We've covered it all...
Matt: Well, I dunno if we have, but...
Darren: Oh I could witter on for ages you know, I'm sure Jon...
(laughter)
...Jon could witter on for ages as well!
Jon: I'm in a chatty mood now like, yeah, yeah...it's 'cause I've had a pint!
(laughter)
Darren: On top of something else...yeah.
Jon: I'm everyone's mate now like, you know...
(laughter)
Matt: Oh well, well if anyone's got anything else they wanna say about anything I've asked, or anything, then feel free.
Jon: Yourself?
Gary: No...
Darren: No...can't really think now.
Jon: Rock hard, rock heavy, rock animal!
Andy: It's a 'joint' effort!
(laughter)
Darren: Well it was, it was today, yeah!
Jon: The 'joint' venture!
All: Yeah, yeah...
Matt: OK, is that it then?
Gary: Yeah.
Matt: Anything else?
Jon: Yeah...thanks! Nice one. Cheers.
Matt: No problem. Good to speak to you guys.
Andy: Thank you.
Darren: And to you, yeah.
Matt: And er...yeah, I'll stop.
Darren: We'll do readers' questions next time!
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Black Sabbath
st track: (05 Apr 2009)
